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TOPIC: NBC's allowing gay marriage

NBC's allowing gay marriage 4 years 4 months ago #13783

  • docziggy
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In the entertainment section of this site, there is a story about NBC changing its rules to allow a gay couple to apply for their annual wedding on the Today show. I personally believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. One of each. That is the law in Texas, too. We changed the constitution about 4 years ago to put some teeth into it. Now the MSM is involved in promoting gay marriage. My question is whether I am just an outdated old curmudgeon or if NBC is crossing the line with this stance.
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Re:NBC's allowing gay marriage 4 years 4 months ago #13785

They're crossing the line in my opinion.
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Re:NBC's allowing gay marriage 4 years 4 months ago #13787

  • trukdoc55
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Bible is pretty clear on this. It ain't Adam and Steve! It is Adam and Eve.
But if there is to be in a free society some acknowledgement that Adam and Steve want to have a legal relationship. OK if you must.
Why does it have to be a "Marriage" Why cannot it be a "Civil Union" or a term of their choosing. And keep it out of the Church.
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Re:NBC's allowing gay marriage 4 years 4 months ago #13788

  • trukdoc55
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And many people cannot see how the media is working to destroy our way of life. Little by little.
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Re:NBC's allowing gay marriage 4 years 4 months ago #13790

  • deckofficer
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Personally, I think it is a publicity grab.
*I was writing a long drawn out reply, and realized it wouldn't do any good. Or bad either, just make me sigh and spark something.
So, no, I don't think they are crossing a line.Nor do I care if they do, I don't watch stuff like that anyway.

**edit: not to be snarky,really. I just think "promoting gay marriage" sounds more correct than "allowing".
read my blog if you're bored.
echobasetoechoseven.blogspot.com/
Last Edit: 4 years 4 months ago by deckofficer.
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Re:NBC's allowing gay marriage 4 years 4 months ago #13792

  • kat2jab
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Deckofficer,

You said a lot in a few words. I don't watch either; it is just another sad comment on our "new" way of life.
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Re:NBC's allowing gay marriage 4 years 4 months ago #13794

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kat2jab wrote:
Deckofficer,

You said a lot in a few words. I don't watch either; it is just another sad comment on our "new" way of life.
Good point. If we did not support the Network it could not promote the lifestyle.
And I do not think there is anything on ABC or NBC that I watch.
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Re:NBC's allowing gay marriage 4 years 4 months ago #13802

  • heartandmind
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trukdoc55 wrote:
Bible is pretty clear on this. It ain't Adam and Steve! It is Adam and Eve.
But if there is to be in a free society some acknowledgement that Adam and Steve want to have a legal relationship. OK if you must.
Why does it have to be a "Marriage" Why cannot it be a "Civil Union" or a term of their choosing. And keep it out of the Church.

how about it's just kept out of the churches that don't condone "gay weddings". some do. some don't. just like some states do and some states don't.

internationally, some nations allow same sex marriage. some don't.

and to be clear, i don't watch morning news shows - any of them. i'm typically at work anyway, so this won't affect me in the least.
Last Edit: 4 years 4 months ago by heartandmind.
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Re:NBC's allowing gay marriage 4 years 4 months ago #13804

  • jbourne
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Uuugh ... :huh:
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Re:NBC's allowing gay marriage 4 years 4 months ago #13826

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heartandmind wrote:
trukdoc55 wrote:
Bible is pretty clear on this. It ain't Adam and Steve! It is Adam and Eve.
But if there is to be in a free society some acknowledgement that Adam and Steve want to have a legal relationship. OK if you must.
Why does it have to be a "Marriage" Why cannot it be a "Civil Union" or a term of their choosing. And keep it out of the Church.

how about it's just kept out of the churches that don't condone "gay weddings". some do. some don't. just like some states do and some states don't.

internationally, some nations allow same sex marriage. some don't.

and to be clear, i don't watch morning news shows - any of them. i'm typically at work anyway, so this won't affect me in the least.

We have been down this path before. The original versions of the Bible are quite clear on the subject.
As stated before you mentioned there are numerous versions of the Bible. You can can shop numerous versions of the Bible to find one that suits you. There is only one Scripture. Same for Churches. After all Charles Manson, Jim Jones, David Koresh, Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan amongst others all had perverted versions of the church. We have a church here in south Texas that arranges marriages between Pedophile older men and little girls in the name of religion, is that OK? Where is the line drawn?
For me it is with the original scripture! Just because it is done in the name of Christianity does not make it right.
It took me 47 years to come to Christ, I am not going to blow it by perverting his word.
Let your conscious be your guide.
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Re:NBC's allowing gay marriage 4 years 4 months ago #13834

  • heartandmind
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there's an interesting article or series on CNN about Christianity. Today there's an article about Christians and politics. Found it interesting.

religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/07/12/my-tak...-christian/?hpt=Sbin
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Re:NBC's allowing gay marriage 4 years 4 months ago #13839

  • jmedge
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I live in Boston and work with 4 people that are married to a person of the same sex.
I grew up in Sulphur Springs and now live in Massachusett the state that was the first to allow gay marriage in the US.
I also understand the thoughts, opinions and feelings that people have on this matter.
HOWEVER, I ask that you please read the essay below "Speaking of Marriage"
The essay speaks for itself and I say AMEN!!
I respect everyones opinion and I hope you respect mine even if you disagree, please do not close yourself off to a certain point of view just because you may disagree the beauty of the United States and the freedom we enjoy is to engage in thoughtful, sane, nonthreatening debate and hopefully come to a conclusion.
God Bless America
Mark Edge


Speaking of Marriage
Rev. Michael S. Piazza
Dean, Cathedral of Hope United Church of Christ

On December 12, 1912 U.S. Representative Seaborn Roddenberry of Georgia proposed a Constitutional Amendment which read in part:

Intermarriage between negroes or persons of color and Caucasians within the United States ...is forever prohibited.

This amendment failed to pass, although 90% of Americans at the time opposed inter-racial marriage. In 1958 the opposition was up to 96%. That year a Virginia judge explained the state law barring interracial marriages by saying, Obviously Almighty God did not intend for the races to mix since each race was initially placed on a separate continent. The U.S. Supreme Court finally overturned those laws, but not until 1967.

While it is unlikely that a federal Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage will pass, we have already seen states proposing Constitutional Amendments which in some cases prohibit even domestic partner benefits.

These amendments could do great harm to our community, making GLBT people second class citizens eligible for a whole range of legal discrimina¬tion. The United States has a history of protecting the rights of minorities and of resisting discrimination, but we have not always done so willingly and rarely done so quickly or easily. For this reason we need all the help we can get in this present struggle for equality.

I believe that at least half of those that opinion polls say oppose same-sex marriage do so with very limited information or consideration. That is because most lesbian and gay people have not talked to their family and friends about this issue. If we remain silent then we are the ones to blame for their uninformed opinions.

Let’s be honest here. In part we are losing this battle because our own community has great ambiguity about the whole issue of marriage.

Marriage, in its present historic form, has rightly been seen as a flawed and generally sexist institution. Many of us in the lesbian/gay commu¬nity do not want to simply buy into an institution which has historically been based more on property rights than love.

It is no accident that the pastor or priest traditionally asks who gives this woman to be married to this man? Women were historically regarded as the property of men to be given and received. The whole idea behind a dowery was that a father paid a man to take his daughter off his hands. It is little wonder we want no part of that system.

Since the time of Ruth and Naomi and David and Jonathan people of the same gender have made sacred covenants complete with a promise that their relationship was until death separated them. So why do we need the state’s approval of our relationship now?

Well, in this country there are over 1,100 civil protections afforded legally married couples but are not available to same sex couples. Britney Spears who got married for 24 hours as a joke received all of those protections, yet gay or lesbian couples together for 24 years get none of them.

• Hospital Visitation: Heterosexually married couples are considered next-of-kin for the purpose of making medical decisions or even hospital visitation. With my own eyes I have seen long-term part¬ners excluded from their dying lovers hospital rooms because they were not legally family.

• Ultimate Decisions: The legal protection of marriage is the only way to insure we get to make ultimate decisions for our loved ones upon their death.

Many years ago a member of this congregation died of AIDS. He had been very specific about his desire to be cremated and his ashes interred in the Memorial Garden of this church. He did not want to be buried in his hometown which had been abusive to him. He even wrote down his wishes and made his partner promise to carry them out.

However, upon his death his biological family swooped in taking all the possession in the home the couple owned jointly, and claiming the body.

When I contacted an attorney on behalf of the partner I was informed that in Texas “dead people have no rights”, and the next-of-kin gets to make all of theses decisions. Before we could get a hearing the grieving partner had lost everything including the love of his life.

• Social Security Benefits: Married couples receive Social Security payments upon the death or a spouse. Yet despite paying the same taxes, lesbian gay couples do not receive a penny regardless of how many years they were together. The average annual cost of this discrimination is $5,528 a year.

• Immigration: On a regular basis the church is called upon to help a couple where one of them is being deported because they are not U. S. Citizens. Heterosexuals can meet at a bar and marry the next day and their partner is allowed to stay, while long term gay cou¬ples are forced to split up or move to another country.

• Health Insurance: Many corporate or government employees are able to provide health insurance to their husband or wife, but same sex couples don’t receive this benefit. Even if a company does provide domestic partner benefits the same sex partner is forced to pay income tax on the value of the insurance

• Estate taxes: A married person automatically inherits all the prop¬erty of his or her spouse without paying taxes. A gay or lesbian spouse must pay estate taxes as if they had received an inheritance from a stranger.

• Retirement Savings: A married person can roll a deceased spouse’s 401k funds into an IRA without paying taxes, but a lesbian or gay American who inherits their partner’s 401K can end up paying a tax liability as great as 70% of the money they spent their lives saving.

• Family Leave: Married workers are legally entitled to unpaid leave from their jobs to care for an ill spouse. Gay and lesbian workers have no such rights.

• Nursing Homes: Married couples have a legal right to live out their last days together in a nursing home. Lesbian and gay couples have no such protection at the end of their lives.

• Home Protection: Laws protect married seniors from being forced to sell their homes to pay for the cost of their partners nursing home care. Same sex couples have no such protection. In addition in Texas even jointly owned homes have to go through the probate process if they are owned by same gender couples.

• Pensions: After the death of an employee most pension plans pay survivor benefits, but they only pay a legally married spouse. The gay or lesbian partner of a life-long employee is left with nothing.

This list could go on, but I hope you see that this is an issue with significant implications.

I would remind you that these are civil rights which are being denied to American taxpayers. Regardless of how someone might feel about the religious issues surrounding marriage this is a matter of discrimination.

Back in the 70's there was a great poster which hung in many churches which said, Ordain women or stop baptizing them!

The point of course was that there are no second class Christians. Well there ought not to be second class citizens either, so I’m proposing this poster: Marry gay people or stop taxing them!

The truth that I keep trying to communicate to people is simply this. Our church has been marrying same-gender couples for three decades. We have married hundreds of couples. No one has died, civilizations has not come to an end, and the institution of marriage has not been harmed...at least not by gay people.

The Cathedral of Hope marries heterosexual couples and homosexual couples. We use the same ritual, exchange the same rings, say the same vows. The only difference is that heterosexual couples walk out of church with about 1,100 government and civil rights and protections that the same-sex taxpayers don’t get.

That is discrimination and it has nothing to do with what the Bible says and doesn’t say about marriage. But let’s talk about that for a moment while we are on that subject.

Leadership Journal is a fairly fundamentalist Christian publication. They interviewed four evangelical pastors about the issue of same-sex marriage. Tony Campolo, who I love, had this to say when the interviewer asked them: So the biblical model of marriage is one man, one woman, one lifetime?

Campolo: A "biblical model" is harder to establish than you think. A colleague of mine has identified, I think, 16 models of marriage in the Hebrew Bible, including polygamy, concubinage, handmaidens, levirate arrangements, purchasing of wives, and spouses that accompany political alliances. It's so pious to say "the biblical model of marriage." Which of those forms of marriage do you mean?

John Yates, and Episcopal Priest in Virginia said:
Yates: I believe Genesis 2 gives us the foundation—a man and woman leaving, cleaving, and becoming one flesh—and then I jump to Mark 10 and Jesus' understanding of the permanence of that relationship.

Campolo: Speaking of Mark 10, what do you do with divorced people who remarry? Do you accept them in church? I mean, while Jesus never speaks about gay marriage, he speaks very clearly about those who remarry after a divorce. I don't know many churches that enforce a no-remarriage rule.

Has the church said, "We have to be faithful to Scripture about marriage, except on the issue of divorce and remarriage"? Or do we extend grace? Because if we're going to show grace toward people who are divorced and remarried, an area Jesus specifically called sin, then how do you not show grace to people in a sexual relationship that Jesus never mentions?

Well, there you have it right from the mouth of one of America’s most prominent evangelicals.

It is remarkable to me how in the past 50 years the church has dramatically shifted its stand on divorce. Some of us are old enough to remem¬ber when divorced persons were not allowed to serve in leadership in churches and were disqualified from ordination in most denominations.

Over the past few decades though we have been guided by grace and reinterpreted the teachings of Jesus in our modern context. Yet when it comes to a topic about which Jesus said NOTHING, most churches remains legalistic, punitive, and primitive in its thinking.

In our conversations with family and friends it might be helpful to raise the issue of what Jesus said about divorce:

And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another commits adultery, except on the ground of unchastity, causes her to commit adultery. Matthew 19:9

Except for the most legalistic and fundamentalist, few Americans believe that divorce is sinful - unfortunate, even tragic, but divorced heterosexuals are not treated as sinners, even though these are words that appear in red in the gospels.

We interpret these words because the world is different than the one in which Jesus spoke. That is how it should be, but why is that different from same sex couples asking for civil rights for their relationships?

The whole issue of same-gender marriage is about justice and fairness, so what you often get are irrational arguments like:

Q Isn’t marriage really for the procreation?
A So does that mean that older people beyond child-bearing age shouldn’t be allowed to marry?
Q So where does it stop? Why not allow polygamy?
A If polygamous marriage is allowed for heterosexuals then it should be allowed for homosexual marriages. Until then this is beside the point.
Q What’s wrong with civil unions? Do you have to call it marriage?
A During the civil rights movement we learned what was wrong with “separate but equal”. It is rarely equal. In this case you can have a civil union in Vermont, but it is meaningless in Texas. Civil Unions don’t address the hundreds of Federal rights being denied same sex taxpayers.

In talking to our family and friends I think there are two keys to being successful. First, we should listen to their concerns. If we can provide additional facts and information that is helpful. Ultimately though it is difficult to argue with an irrational fear.

In the end what is most critical though is for you to tell them your own personal story. They need to hear why this matters to you; how it makes you feel to be treated like a second class citizen and human.

Your story is something no one can argue with. In the end we are count¬ing on a verse from the Bible being true. I John 4:18 says:

Perfect love cast out all fear!

We are counting on the love of people who know you to overcome their irrational fear of change. Ultimately we serve a God who say:

Behold I make all thing knew!

Who knows if we live with faith rather than fear that same God may make marriage new, but making us all take it more seriously and understanding what it can really mean for us. AMEN
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Re:NBC's allowing gay marriage 4 years 4 months ago #13840

  • heartandmind
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you forget that there's many denominations - like Methodists, Church of Christ, Lutherans - that welcome gays into their congregations. Some even ordain homosexuals and even women to be ministers. Some perform unification ceremonies. They're not of the ilk of cults (david koresch, jom jones, etal) that you list. just because a particular denomination doesn't agree with your particular brand of following doesn't negate it's value. Besides the acceptance of gays by some denominations, we know there's more differences in some of the basics - women ordainment or women lay-leaders in the church, how confessions are handled, how the Lord's supper is handled, etc. There's many differences in how various denominations worship and conduct their services and rituals and how they expect their congregants to act both during worship services and outside of the church building.
Also, don't forget, it's the Lutherans that broke off from the Catholic church initially, thus allowing for other denominations to follow suit both in Europe and America. Our Constitution isn't written so that only one type or one denomination is followed - there's far too many differences to accomodate legally speaking, all the denominations - there'd be too many conflicts between the denominations, I daresay. There's room for all who follow Christ here at home. If we start putting qualifications on it, then we're no better than any muslim nation.
Last Edit: 4 years 4 months ago by heartandmind.
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Re:NBC's allowing gay marriage 4 years 4 months ago #13871

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heartandmind wrote:
you forget that there's many denominations - like Methodists, Church of Christ, Lutherans - that welcome gays into their congregations.
All people are to be welcomed into the church for the purpose of ministering. But scripture is clear. The church cannot condone acts against Gods word.
And there are denominations of all types that have changed the scripture to suit them. There are plenty of Bible passages to cover that as well.
And to include a response of your CNN article.
There are a lot of people that do wicked things hiding behind Christ.
And it is clear how that will eventually end. "If" we are the generation to see end times. There are a LOT of Christians at the time of Rapture that will be left here. The True Christians will be gone. I suspect due to the perversions of His word a lot will be left behind. There will be people that CALL themselves Christians that have not lived as the Bible commanded wondering what happened. This is spelled out very clear. All you have to do is read for yourself. Do not or take anything away from, or add to the word of God. You may convince yourself or even others. When the time comes good luck telling our Savoir how your version is better than his.
I did not grow up with Christ in my house as a kid. I was about 40 years old when after a series of events that should have killed me on two different occasions I finally got the message. At some point one cannot ignore the blessings and must pay attention or be lost for ever. I was Baptized at 47 years old. I made it that long without Christ, what made me do this. I was told to! And not by a man.
This is Gods law.
On to man's law. As I said before. I see where a civil union or some other arrangement might need to be made in the cases of SS payments and retirement benefits. However I will never say the lifestyle is "Right" But I can accept their place in Society. But keep it out of our Christian Church church! Is that too much to ask?
As stated before. Let your conscious be your guide. After all your Salvation depends on it.
Eternity is a long time if you are wrong.
If you are not a believer, are you absolutely sure? Eternity is a long time if you are wrong.
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Re:NBC's allowing gay marriage 4 years 4 months ago #13874

  • heartandmind
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I'm just saying we all pick the churches we attend - we find those that we're comfortable with. And speaking as Christian, I'm glad you found your way to a church you're comfortable and happy with. Just please, don't expect all churches to practice the same things the same way. And you most certainly don't have to accept or like the churches that practice differently than you like, nor do you even have to hang out with anyone from a different denomination, just ilke you have the right to choose not to hang out with any gay people.

And you are correct about man's laws needing to address the legal issues. And I think most gays would be content with just that.

have a great day, truk. God bless you and yours.
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